Church & College Students
Conversations to strengthen you and your church with the tools and confidence to love, reach and disciple college students. Brought to you by Fusion USA and friends.
Church & College Students
How can the church foster intergenerational discipleship with college students?- with Rich Wilson
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With the word "intergenerational" being used more and more in the hopes and hunger of the church, we wanted to talk about what this really looks like in practice.
Rich Wilson, leader of Fusion Movement, has been doing a lot of living, thinking, and writing about Spiritual Parenting, and what participating in God's family, across generations, can really mean.
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SPEAKER_04Conversations to strengthen you and your church with the tools and confidence to love, reach, and disciple college students.
SPEAKER_00Welcome everyone to the Church and College Student Podcast. My name is Shook, and I'm here with my friend Miriam Swanson.
SPEAKER_04Hi, everybody. Today we're really excited to share with you a conversation we've had with Rich Wilson, who leads the Fusion Movement. And the question that we've been asking as we think about college students finding hope in Jesus and then home in the local church is how can the church foster intergenerational discipleship when it comes to college students? What does it mean to be a spiritual parent, particularly at a time when young people are turning back towards church or open to spirituality or wondering where Father God fits into all of this? We wanted to have that conversation with Rich and with you around the role of spiritual parents in the church. And it was, I mean, it was a lot of big vision and big theology going on there today, wasn't it, Shuk?
SPEAKER_00Yes, absolutely. But some really good practical bits as well.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and I think if if I think about um students coming to faith and college students in your church right now, the reality is uh whether you know them or not, everyone has a story, and their story is deeply impacted by their family of origin. Their faith is deeply impacted by their biological father, whether present, absent, or a mixture. And so to assume that kids come in knowing what family means when we use that language in the church, to assume that when they pray Father God, that hasn't got any baggage, or to assume that their family is even in touch and supporting them now, so the church is a nice bonus, but their main support system is their biological family. I think one of the things that we're increasingly becoming aware of is that won't necessarily be true. And for those that come to faith from a a background that has no Christian influence at all, or even another religion, they might actually be starting from scratch when it comes to spiritual family when they meet you in their university years. And so yeah, our hope from this episode, which is full of stories as well as vision, is that we all get an imagination and get excited about the role that each of us can play, regardless of our life stage and age around being spiritual parents. Um, yeah, so listen in this is Rich coming to us from Loughborough in England. And uh I hope this provokes you and your church around spiritual parenting and the gift that it can be today.
SPEAKER_00Welcome, Rich. We are so glad that you are with us today. Um, man, we we know that you've got a busy schedule, you've been traveling around a little bit, and uh we're just so thankful that you're with us today. Um why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself? You can share whatever you think our listeners need to know about you.
SPEAKER_01Thank you, Shook. Thank you, Miriam. Really good to be with you. Uh well, I'm based in Loughborough in central England. I've been there for 30 years since being a student. I got caught up with a group of students who planted a church, and that's kept me grounded and rooted in this place, but it's also given me a heart for students locally and further afield, and that's really what I've given my life to. Um, so now I I get the privilege of working with you guys in the US and some guys in England, some guys in Spain, and some guys in Scotland, and uh that keeps me busy along with local church leadership and uh seeing what God does on the ground here.
SPEAKER_04I mean, he's being very British about it because obviously we don't do titles in Britain, but he's the movement leader for fusion. So uh for Americans that are like, but what is your job? Uh he leads the movement, and so uh he's our boss, but he can't fire us because we're so relational. He doesn't have that power. No. So uh yeah, I've worked with Rich for over 15 years, and what we're going to be talking about uh today, as we've already shared, is not something that Rich has always spoken about overtly, although it's something he's had to live even as a young man and now as a seasoned leader in his 50s. Uh it's coming more to the surface around this intergenerational discipleship piece, spiritual parenting, and actually the role of every generation to love, serve, and seek the kingdom together across generations. And so Rich hasn't spoken about this as much, although that is something that I think is coming up more and more. So, congratulations, uh, Americans. You're getting uh you're getting some of the fresh thoughts and writing and discernment of um of this topic because it's kind of come to Rich in a new way. So I guess Rich, let's let's start by talking a little bit about this whole spiritual parenting piece and this intergenerational discipleship piece. That's a bit of um people are talking about that a bit more, but tell me how why has this kind of come front and center for you in recent years?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yes, uh, it's exactly what we want to talk about today. Um, it started a long way back for me. I remember being 21 in a gathering and someone praying for me and praying about um fathering over me, and it just undid me. I just began to to weep, and I didn't really know what was going on, other than that there was something to do with a deep sense of calling and role. And I would say that that's grown over the years, um, as I've worked with young adults and students, and I've had my own family, and and then more recently, um I I remember being in a gathering about two and a half years ago, and again I felt God speak to me very, very clearly about this, but it was in a different way, now in a different season, and I'm almost sensed an assignment from God to begin to articulate um this area of parenting in God's family, which which we're calling spiritual parenting. So it's not exclusive to those who are biological parents. In fact, some of the best spiritual parents I know have have not had children, and they're not necessarily even old, but they've they've got something of God's heart. And um as I've been writing to the last two and a half years, I've found myself living it in a different way. I've been surrounded by more people who need spiritual parenting. In my own locality, we're not we're not a big local church, but last 18 months we've we've seen about 80 people find faith, of which 60 of uh are are between the age of 18 and 25. And so, whereas we maybe didn't need spiritual parents in quite the same way previously, now we really do. And so now I feel like we're up against the clock because this isn't just us, this is happening, I think, right across the Western world that God is awakening a generation. Yes, and so therefore at the same time, uh, he's also wanting to call out something of the spiritual parenting role in this church.
SPEAKER_04So good.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Rich, what do you what do you um I mean what what are you seeing just with this kind of uptick? Um, because you because you're talking about urgency here, but there does seem to be an uptick in the Western world because I agree, some conversations I'm having with folks both in the US and England, we're we're seeing this more, like a greater need um for this. What do you what do you think contributes to just all of a sudden this urgency here at this moment? What are you seeing in that?
SPEAKER_01I I think God is doing something, you know. So as we've mentioned, we've been in this this work for some time, but the last two years have felt different. There's a different hunger uh across the generations, but particularly in the younger generations, they seem to be reaching out to faith in a different way. And and I think they're also a generation that haven't been particularly well parented for certainly the things of faith. Yeah, right. You know, they've been looked after, they've been provided for, certainly college students have, but in terms of some of their deeper needs and identity and who they they really are. Well, who's speaking to that? Where do they go for wisdom? Where do they find some of these uh the answers to some of these deep questions that often they can't articulate, but they kind of just need to know, am I okay? How much how am I doing? Yeah, and they need an elder to speak to them or to presence themselves with them in a particular way that somehow reassures them. And so there's a generation coming through who I think are looking for a lot of reassurance, and and that deeper reassurance is found in in spirituality and faith. Uh, and that uh for us as Christians is no surprise because that is how we're we're wired.
SPEAKER_04And I I think the reason why this spiritual parenting piece actually fits so well with what fusion do in terms of our laser laser sharp focus on helping the church love reaching disciple college students is because when your young people leave home and go to university and they leave family of origin systems, their biology or their lack of parenting, and they and they're they're out to sea on the campus, suddenly it exposes the systems that they've been raised up in, and uh it it's in some cases it strengthens, like you realise, gosh, those foundations set me up really well. In other cases, they're massively realizing, gosh, I am under supplemented in this area in a big way, and I'm really feeling exposed and vulnerable. I mean, I remember on on sort of your freshman welcome week type things, back in the day we did a lot of ministry out of a VW camper van as a kind of a mobile prayer room and mission station, you know, giving out water, helping young people get home safely. And I remember one young man stumbled into the van with our team at the start of his night out, already worse for wear, and he said, I don't want to go on this night out. And he sat down in the camper van and he spent two hours. He just went, I just feel safer here. I am here to try and prove to my dad that I can make him proud, and I already feel like I've failed him, and it's day five. And he just needed to talk about his dad and lack of his father's presence and care and and expectations and reality, and and that was week one of him leaving home. It all came out to uh what I was 24, my team were probably aged between 20 and 26 on the street helping the students. So just recognising you're you're right, Rich. We kind of this moment suddenly bubbles up, doesn't it, when they leave home in that biological family sense. And then you suddenly realize what does even home mean to me now? And then what is the church's response when they're looking for home and parenting, having just left theirs?
unknownHmm.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and it's taken us, I don't know, five minutes to get into the the great universal wound of father wound. Whoops. And we're kind of joking about it because you kind of have to joke a little bit because it's so tragic. Yeah. So we've got to find a way of of talking about it and um acknowledging it. And we can do it one way here, but then there's another way which we must engage when it comes to our local churches, and those one-to-one spaces where actually people are looking to be seen, you know, who's who's looking at me. And and actually to not be seen and blessed by an elder is a form of wounding. That's it's not it doesn't have to be abuse, it's just a kind of neglect or a lack of recognition of being seen for who they are. Um, and and I think this is a great growth area for the church. We're kind of aware of it, but it takes us um a few moments to take a breath and get over ourselves and outside ourselves and recognize okay, this is what's required now. Yeah, a huge hunger, a huge hunger to be seen and noticed. And um a generation of elders who who I think are waking up to that, and and this is where some of their deepest fulfillment in latter years is gonna come from, is giving themselves away to the next generation. Some of them, some of them are sitting around now thinking, I've done this, I've done this. I used to have an identity in work, I used to have this. And and I believe God is saying, You are not finished. There's so much more for you. Everything that you've been through, all of your story counts, particularly the hard bits, because we we need the elders to reframe their story so they can help generation reframe theirs. Yeah. Um and that that's I guess that's some of the summary which we can talk about of spiritual parenting. Um, yeah.
SPEAKER_04I I remember um theologian Lucy Peppiat, um, she's phenomenal, she's written a lot of good works on discipleship, the Trinity, women in leadership. But I was sitting in her living room once and she she was in her 50s, empty nester, and was just like Miriam, I'm so frustrated with my generation. Stop picking out new curtains and go and mentor somebody.
SPEAKER_01And that phrase stuck with me. Yeah, do you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_04Because I was just like, empty nesting, sure, change your decor, but go and find the next generation to parent in that empty nest, you know, like go and get involved. Um, but I've always remembered that as being like, remember that in your 50s, Miriam. Don't go and pick new curtains, go and find someone younger to disciple.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, you know, I I was at a a conference um back in November um with Revive and was helping to just share about, you know, like what fusion does, that sort of thing. But in the room was about five college students, and the question was asked to them do you care about like where you meet? And so the curtains thing just triggered that in my ADHD brain here. But it was the whole thing, they said, no, we just want to be around people who welcome us, who love us, who who essentially like what Rich is talking about in very healthy ways, just want to parent or maybe even grandparent them. That's that's all they're looking for. So I hope that's some sort of encouragement. You don't have to have the perfect curated space at a church, the ambiance of a coffee shop. Truly, the the generation that's hungry, they're they're really hungry for relationship. And so I just hope that that's it, right? Like stop picking out your curtains and just have a conversation with some of these young people.
SPEAKER_01I I think that's spot on, Shook, because I think there's too many kind of obstacles and lies that are seeming like too big a hurdle to get over. And really, you know, you don't need to be trendy, you don't need to get all linked, you don't need to be able to work technology. That's quite endearing, actually. You know, you but what we mustn't do is we mustn't believe the lie that somehow what we carry is not relevant. Right, absolutely. We've got far more in common than we have that separates us. Yeah. You know, we've we all are human needs and condition and emotions and and the ups and downs of life that people've had to journey through. That's that's got far more in common than maybe some of the the transient cultural chill trends, even of technology. So that that's surface level. Uh, and and the deep yearning in humanity and the generation coming through is is matters of the heart. And who can who can teach me how to how to guard my heart? And and who can teach me how to journey through these ups and downs of life that I'll surely face? And oh, and you've been there. So, how did how did you hold on to God when when you went through that? And you got really deeply wounded in that place. How did you recover from that? And so um just sharing something of our story is deeply powerful and impactful, and and and it it requires a bit of vulnerability, but they're not looking for our hero stories, you know. They might be pleased that we we represented our nation in whatever, whatever, but actually they really want to know how we've kind of got through. How do we stay married when you know this happened? And how did we overcome this when we when our dream fell apart or we lost our job? How did we do that? And this is the level of of spiritual parenting we're talking about, and this is why so many more people can do it. This is this is we're really not talking about pastors and leaders now. We're talking about people who have have learned to follow Jesus in their everyday lives.
SPEAKER_04But Rich, what do you say to those that that immediately think they're not qualified because they themselves weren't spiritually parented? They themselves feel like they have failed as a Christian, whether that's they're divorced, whether it's that they don't really know much about the Bible, and so they're a bit scared of a question, or whatever the thing might be, because I feel like I come across a lot of people that are like, I never got that. I wouldn't know where to start, or they wouldn't be interested in me. And although I encourage like ask better questions, you don't need to give any answers. The reality is lots of people feel disqualified because they haven't experienced it themselves, or they don't think that their life they don't think it's got any of the lessons young people really want to learn. Like, what would you say? How do we get over some of those obstacles?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think I think we go over them one by one because there's quite a few there. You've kind of nailed uh or named quite quite a few of them. So we we have to get over them one by one. We know that God is a God of second chances, and um we see that throughout scripture. Thank God for the candid accounts of people who've been used by God. Can you find someone who didn't have a checkered past? Yeah, it's difficult, so we know that that's not a disqualifying factor. Sometimes it's our own frozen perception. So we've got to allow Jesus to do the work in us because we can't transmit our pain. So one thing we need to do is we need to we need to work out God, what what have you healed in me? So at least I can do that work, um, and then I can I can potentially help someone else find their healing. You know, the story of of Hannah and Eli in scripture. Hannah Hannah prays these desperate prayers, she's in a desperate place for a son, and and God answers. So she there's there's a mothering there before she's even a spiritual mother, even as a single person, there's something coming out there. And so this doesn't disqualify anybody, anybody's background, anybody's story. And then you have Eli, and his family setups an absolute disaster. Um, you you wouldn't want your child to visit his household, never mind, grow up in it. But we have this we have this picture of somehow God gives Eli a second chance. He made he he he makes complete mess up of parenting his own sons, but then he's given this huge responsibility of parenting the next of the last judge and prophet of Israel. Uh and to me again, if we can take the story and bigness, we can go, okay. The the mistakes we made, even those God wants to use, um, and particularly I think he wants to use, but we we might need to do some healing and find our own peace with our past before we're ready to parent out of that place.
SPEAKER_04It's actually really helpful to think about it being it's not just for the benefit of the young people, but it's for your own benefit. Like it's as much about you being discipled by Jesus into God's grace and glory and goodness, not just it's not all about young people, it's about every generation. Like that, they were great examples of that.
SPEAKER_00It's beautiful. Yeah, I I mean, because I've got a a question along those lines. I mean, I because I think in the culture that it is today, I I would say, especially in Anglo-America, like it's basically, hey, not my monkeys, not my problem, right? Like, not my kids. Why would I disciple them, pour into them, those that sort of thing. And so, Rich, you and I had a conversation recently, and we talked about intergenerational discipleship being a God-ordained role for the whole church, the whole body. So, could you talk to us and encourage us about why that is so important in this moment?
SPEAKER_01I mean, we we get we get very locked into the here and now uh because understandably our experience of family is this this what what we've experienced, but but Jesus has a def different definition, and he comes to announce that. And so he he makes some fairly shocking statements uh uh to his disciples and to his mother and his brothers about the nature of his family, and it's basically a lot more inclusive than we make it often. And our challenge as Christians is to align ourselves with Jesus' definition, primarily recognizing that our small nuclear families fit into that, but they're not everything, yeah. And they won't be what will be. What will be in heaven is something far greater, yeah. And and and and I do believe that our The very best expressions that we touch of family this side of heaven are us a a kind of pale a pale shadow of what we will have the other side of heaven uh in terms of our relationships and our connectedness. Otherwise, Jesus would have started a family. But he he was good. He went through he was single. He knew there was something far greater in mind. Paul would have started a family. He knew there was something far greater in mind. And yet he refers to a lot of family language in his letters. And so this is this is some of the work I think the church needs to do in terms of lifting our eyes up to the inclusivity of God's family and and what what price we'll pay to see people be part of it. And this is where I think some single people I know lead the way on spiritual parenting. Because they have to agree to they've had no choice. And and the great thing is um not only are they not disqualified, they play an incredible role in welcoming people because I don't know any who don't feel the pain of not having had their own family, particularly as they've got older. But it speaks to us of a deeper truth and reality that God's family is the one that's lasting, and and we get a choice of are we gonna invest in that, this side of heaven. Um, and so I'm motivated by that. Yeah, I don't necessarily find it easy. Um, you know, this challenges me. I I don't think I'm a natural in that sense, but but uh but there's a growing conviction in me that um uh one day I'm gonna meet a much wider family uh who are my family and Jesus' family. And so we we get to build that family this side of heaven.
SPEAKER_04I think it's actually really helpful. You've said this hasn't been like particularly natural for you, but it doesn't mean that you abdicate from your responsibility as a disciple to make disciples of different generations, you know. Do you think you could get a bit practical around as someone that's like learn learning this on the job out of necessity and conviction? What has it looked like? What what do you mean genuinely in a in a week of what our spirit spiritual parenting might look like so that we can really put like flesh on the bones of this big vision?
SPEAKER_01Great, and and this is where the rubber hits the road for all of us. So I think for me, it's um when I'm in a in a church gathering, it's intergenerational, I'm trying to be conscious of the younger generation around me and not just around me, when I'm in an interaction, I'm trying to be conscious of my eye contacts, how I listen to them, what questions I ask about them, uh, because I I know that that has a much bigger impact on them than it does on me. But equally, if I'm if I'm just floating around, um, that also has an impact. Um so so practically when I'm in a space around younger leaders, and this is true in in the fusion team and setting, increasingly I'm trying to be more conscious of um the interest I take in others. Um that's good. Lesson and I, my wife and I, we've lived with people in our home for the last 25 years, and nine months ago, uh after after a bit of a break, we invited a couple of new Christians. They've been Christians six months, and we invited them to live with us. We felt that was the right thing to do. And so my day-to-day has these young adults in my home, and I have to keep reminding me, myself, that I'm I'm I'm a parental figure. Now I don't call myself a spiritual parent to them, I'm just their friend. I just want to bless them, but I have to keep reminding myself that I will just want to bless them. Um they probably won't listen to this, but you know, one of them's a young lad, and and he eats me out of house and home, and I love him. But I have to keep remembering, yeah, and and the Lord is my shepherd, and I shall not want, there's no scarcity around here, yeah. But it it's like, oh, I thought I was gonna eat that, you know. So it comes down to very basic levels, but ultimately I wanna I want to bless them. That's good, yeah, and all the time they're with us, and they're not with us for much longer. I I I think it's the least I can do, and I just know there come a point where none of this will matter. So, why would I worry about some of the small things? Why would I worry about the finances? Why would I worry about the food or even some of the space? You know, so so that's you know, that's that's very practically in my own life, and that's really helpful. And it's an ongoing challenge and and transformation in me that is taking place.
SPEAKER_04Shook, what about for you? Because you do this as well. What practically in a week? Is there a uh do you have any examples of what spiritual parenting looks like for you? You're obviously parenting teenagers at the moment in your home, but I know that you adopt some of their mates along the way as well.
SPEAKER_00Well, I mean, Rich is hitting it pretty hard for me because uh eating your stuff and then like my my youngest will come in and there will be like a uh gang of girls that will come into the house and they'll just start going through the pantry, the refrigerator. Some of it is you just go, Oh man, are they gonna eat all of our food? You know, like those sorts of things. But to be honest, this I remember one day feeling hard conviction from God, he was like, This is an answered prayer. You prayed for this, and we have because Krista's parents, that's what they did when she grew up, and we were like, we want to be this household where kids feel welcome because we have no idea what any of the other little girls in the neighborhood are going through, right? What is their house situation? So if they can come to our house and grab a sandwich and a Coke and then go back out with a smile, great. Uh, and then this I would say this I think the invasion of space um is is a tricky one too, just because you get used to it and then all of a sudden it's invaded. But man, what a great opportunity to and like what Rich was saying, it's so simple just to be a kind presence. Truly, that's been so simple. Because I'll say this to everybody, just as an encouragement, and these are these are young girls, like elementary age, middle school age girls, is a majority of them have started coming to church with us um at the invitation of Reagan. Not we're not pressuring Reagan to ask them. They just come because that's part of our natural rhythm. And Reagan's like, well, I do it, so why wouldn't I bite my friends? You know, that sort of thing. And so yeah, I would I would say that. And then the other thing is um, is there's a couple of other people in our church. I've started to help out with our young adults, brand new, trying to create space and curate space. And we have had some wonderful people that have offered, you know, like their homes and their time again, just to be that's it, just to be hosts and just to give space. And that's been incredible to see. I even go back to that comment of those five college students at that conference when they said they really don't care, they really don't. I mean, they they just want the nourishment from somebody that's willing to just sit and listen and then what a gift it is to share our stories. And I know Miriam and Rich, you have witnessed this too, but we're we're not in like some sort of hero era anymore. They really want to know how to practically get through the struggle um of the different things in their lives, and they're looking for people to help them navigate their own pathways. Right, right. And so that's the encouragement I would give just in this moment is just create space to be able to do it, you know, be willing. Absolutely, you know.
SPEAKER_04And and I I've I've found in my own receiving of spiritual parenting, I lived in community very much like Rich has modeled in his home with Ness. I lived in community when I graduated with a couple of empty nesters, and they it's actually what I needed because my parents got a divorce, and their story was a story of divorce that like they did everything wrong, and then God made everything right and they were restored. And so I got this privilege of living with a couple who who did made every mistake way worse than my parents, and God redeemed every element of the story, and so then living with them, I I felt like God's like, Hey, you know what your biology didn't give you in this area, watch what I do with the body of Christ, and so I got like they run marriage courses, I got like the masters of telling the truth, being really honest, and their story was one of failure in God's grace. It wasn't because it was so perfect, I moved in with them. But I just even recognized, ooh, there's been really specific seasons. Well, they don't play that role for me now, but when I really needed some of that healing in my mid-20s, their spiritual parenting season hit just that bit for what I needed. So just to encourage you, right? Rich isn't going to be the the sort of unlike low-key spiritual parent of the two that lived with them forever, but he just he walked into the season, stepped into the invitation, and then used the space well for that bit. So don't feel intimidated that it means you're someone's extra mum for the next 20 years. Yeah, do the thing today in front of you, and it's okay if it's two months or two years, or like you I'd hate for people to not start because they don't know when it'll finish, but to just do the do the thing and be okay with it can be a season, and that's not a forever commitment because people come and go in life, don't they?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's a great word. Because I think I think when you throw out things like spiritual parenting, that's what people think. Oh, I'm gonna have to it can feel a bit big, can't it?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I'm gonna sp I'm gonna parent this kid for the next decade. It's like, no, just just in that moment, maybe just in the season, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think it can be moment to moment, and I I think I think it flows out of people. It's it's more about being than doing. Uh it's more about being sort of present than absent, definitely, and and present in in a number of ways. Uh and so there's a grace for it that I think God's just willing to release in people. This isn't a this isn't a duty, this is something that actually will bring you real life and joy. And as I'm watching um a growing number of elders step into this locally, I'm also watching them come alive. Yeah, because it's bringing huge purpose to some of their later years and for some some of the younger years as well. But it's bringing huge purpose. Um and it and it's a joy. That's that's that's part of it. There is a there is a cost at times, but there is also a huge joy to be had with with um recognising that this is something that God has for you. And um back to your your question before of like you know, people stepping into it, how do they do it when uh they've not been parented? Some of it is more instinctive than we realise because some of it we can do out of what we haven't had. Uh so out of our lack, we can go, you know what, I'm not gonna pass that lack on. I'm gonna give you what I would have wanted. Yeah, good. And trusting that God will minister to us as He ministers through us. Yeah. So we what in Kingdom Economy, you can't you can't miss out. Uh, so it might feel like we've had a lack, but actually giving ourselves, God will will meet us.
SPEAKER_04And so as we kind of wrap this up, I'm thinking, you know, this podcast specifically addresses the church and students' role, that college student years in the local church. But at the end of the day, you've given us a lifelong vision and calling in the kingdom. And so, yeah, what would be your kind of final words of encouragement for churches? Like, and even giving us that long game. Let's say if a freshman does actually get spiritual parented by a member of your congregation, not a staff member, but you've activated the whole body to integrate and share and disciple one another. Like, what would be your final words of encouragement? Because you know, there's church leaders and college pastors listening to this that are wondering, oh, is that another thing that I need to now try and create a program for? Or like give me a vision that for these college students? Yeah, what would your encouragement be to those listening? Because those listening basically do lead college students.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. I I think it's to work with what the Holy Spirit is doing. So I I think we're more than I've known in my life before, I feel like we're in a Malachi four time where the hearts of parents are being turned to their children, and the hearts of children are being turned to their parents. And so we just need to participate. This isn't a duty, this isn't a program, this isn't a workbook, this is this is a turning of hearts. Will we as and as we turn to God, I think he's going to turn our hearts. I think that was the sign of Asbury. I think that's a mark of awakening. And so as we lean into what God's doing, this this should be a natural consequence. I think it will be a natural consequence because I think it's a work of the spirit, it's a work of his heart. It's an outworking of something that he all he's always desired as generations together. Um and so um I think it's looking for it more than trying to curate it, recognizing it when it happens. That's how it's hit me at times. I've been like, oh, this is different. I I'm noticing, I'm noticing how they're interacting, and and and then um either celebrating that or affirming it. Um I I I'd be I'd be saying, watch out, look out. This this is happening, this is on God's agenda. Um, and then and then celebrate it, name it, celebrate it, uh, and enjoy it.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, man, thank you, Rich. Uh, I mean, what number one, what a podcast, but what an ending there, and what a great encouragement to the church. So thank you so much for being with us today. Um, being a really good, challenging voice, helping us to to see, I think, beyond just our um physical kind of like limitations and excuses to even like some of the the depth of the spiritual and and the behind that. Um, yeah, but thank you, Rich. Such such a great time with you today. Truly our pleasure.
SPEAKER_04We will link you to Rich in the show notes and his latest sub stack that you can subscribe to is actually about spiritual parenting as well. And so we'll make sure that you've got those links available. And one day in the future, who knows when you're listening to this? Uh one day in the future, Rich will have a book on this to equip and encourage the church in spiritual parenting. We don't know when that day will be, but I've I've read some drafts and it's good. So we hope that at some point it'll be in your hands too to help encourage the church in this. But yeah, thank you, Rich, for everything we're doing in this area.
SPEAKER_00Thanks, guys. Yeah. Well, everybody, we will see you next time. Bye bye.
